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Wednesday, 15 September 2010

Wither Orioles ?

Orioles Community Club
A bit of unfortunate community drama in my neck of the West End.

I moved into the Burnell / St. Matthews area three years ago. At the time not a lot of programming was going on at Orioles. It, and the decline in West-End youth recreation in general, was fodder for some of my of my earliest posts. The club's rinks / tennis courts were long gone, the place looked like it was closed down, the odd time kids were in there but events did not seem well advertised or attended whenever I dropped in to see what was up.

Unfortunately, a lack of community participation helped put the second-oldest community club in the city out of commission. In 2006 Orioles amalgamated with Isaac Brock and Clifton Community Centres to create a new entity: the Vaolur Community Club to cover a catchment area of nearly 30,000 people, (one of the city's largest). Valour was headquartered out of the Issac Brock location and that's where a bulk of the programming and renovation money has gone as well.


In 2007 there was a change in fortune for Orioles. The Daniel McIntyre / St. Matthews Community Association, (DMSMCA), was formed and did their programming out of space at the community club. It had the feel of an old-time community centre again.

By the following year there was a lot of activity going on. A bike cage, community garden, resident programming (like art classes, safety courses and the produce canning workshop I was hoping to attend next week !). The core programming of the Community Association such as a housing committee and small grants program also happened from the site. The DMSMCA and Valour boards pooled their resources for youth rec programming.

Earlier this month that fortune was reversed. The DMSMCA was evicted from the centre by the Valour CC board.

West End Rainbow !
A "Transitional Meeting" was held tonight at the West End Cultural Centre to give a face-to-face update on what happened and what will happen in the near future.

Board members of the DMSMCA steered pretty clear of getting into the 'he said - she said' of what happened. That was a good thing as there is nothing as mind-numbing as the minutiae of community association politics, (except, perhaps, the
minutiae of university student council politics). Also, I got the sense that most of the 45 or so people in the room were already up to speed on whatever took place.

West End Library
The meeting wasn't all bad news. The core programs remain in place and will continue to operate from temporary premises. Ones needing larger spaces such as a gym or hall are still being sorted out.

In early 2011 the DMSMCA will move their offices and open an expanded community resource centre in the former West End Library which will become their permanent home.



This leaves the question "what would Beth Eaton, (1952 Miss Orioles Community Club), think about all of this ?!"

I didn't know the woman but I imagine that she would not be very happy with what has happened to Orioles over the past few years.

First off, the community let Orioles die out due to lack of participation, (and amalgamation cash dangled by the city). Now, after a rebirth of sorts, community politics will put it back to being a less-used satellite centre again.

It was stressed tonight that if the community, used to
a high-functioning community centre again, wanted to keep programming going they have to do two things. First, remain involved in what programming is being offered and be vocal about what they want to see offered at the club. Second, is to be vigilant as decisions about Orioles' future programming and direction are being made by the board of, effectively, another community centre.

A 2009 West End BIZ community study was mentioned at the meeting. It was a study of the site's strengths and weaknesses and what people would like to see offered there. Unfortunately, a conclusion that comes up again and again is to use the DMSCA to help recruit volunteers and make up for budget, staffing and programming deficiencies at the site. If you are a community resident, the report is a great primer on what Orioles is and what it can be.


Also see my history of Orioles CC !

38 comments:

mrchristian said...

Hi anon.

Thank you for this - I don't know why your post showed up in my inbox and not here as well. Did you mark it private or can I cut and paste it into the comments section here ? It's important to have both sides.

I am neither for or against either group personally.

I wrote the post knowing that there was another side but really don't have contact with Valour CC or have seen or heard of any meetings with area residents to hear their side of things.

My point for writing is that when i first moved there it seemed a very slow summer at Orioles then, with DMSCA there, the amount of activity and contact with residents improved dramatically. It is an assumption, and you are right that it may be an incorrect one, that the group being gone may lead to there being less contact and programming being offered again.

I, and I think a vast majority of the residents without a connection with the DMSMCA, would love to see a high level of programming out of the centre and really couldn't care less who offered it.

You are right, too, that the community has to put it's money where it's youth is and be willing to get involved.

I'll happily post any good news or programming stuff about Orioles / Valour !

Anonymous said...

You are only getting the DMSMCA point of view. They are lead by a bully that that likes to play the victim in all this. They have political ties,thick with the NDP. They went over the VCC boards heads, above the head of someone at GCWCC and got Councilor Smith to try and do their dirty work. Their mighty leader makes over $60,000 a year. The board at VCC is run by people with real jobs who volunteer their time after hours to run a community centre. the programming was there before,during and will be there after DMSMCA is long gone. My question to you is where were all these concerned residents before the amalgamation when Orioles only had 3 board members and were fighting to keep the doors open? DMSMCA are not the saviors of the Orioles site. They simply created a mis-informed panic amongst the area. They tried to bully the VCC and failed, they slandered them on the web and radio and all it got them in the end was evicted. They are still bad mouthing the VCC, so don't kid yourself in believing they are the victims here!

me said...

I grew up in the daniel macintyre area, and hung out at was once known as the Orioles Community Center, which is now known as the Valour Community Centre - Orioles Site. The people at the DMSMCA should be appologizing to the Valour Board, and asking for forgiveness of the residents of the Daniel MacIntyre area for letting that part of the community down as well! I am extremely appalled at the fact that the DMSMCA screwed things up not just for themselves, but also for the youth, and the community that they claimed to have been providing for. I listened to the interview on the radio, and what caught my attention was a statement that was made by Larry when interviewing the Valour CC president:

IF THE DMSMCA HAD SIGNED THE FACILITY USE AGREEMENT, THEN THEY WOULD STILL BE IN THE BUILDING......

I ask the people who read this to think carefully about this question,

If the DMSMCA were so concerned about providing the youth programming they claim to have provided, why the hell didn't they just sign this agreement?

Just a little food for thought.....

What the closed minded people of the DMSMCA group need to realize, is that the Orioles Site would have been closed down if not for the hard working volunteer boards of what was once know as the Isaac Brock Community Center, and the Clifton Community Center. Do they realize that? The Old Orioles Community Center was allowed to get that way, with the last president that ran the place, it was in danger of closing down for good well before the boards of the Old Isaac CC and Clifton CC took it under their wing. Thank god for those people for keeping that from happening and shame on you DMSMCA for your behaviour.

And one thing I noticed about the article that was written itself, you have a picture taken from an angle that only shows a nasty looking portion of the Orioles grounds. Why not post a picture of the new playground and area around that in your article as well, since you are not favoring either side.

Anonymous said...

I myself grew up within the Isaac Brock, Clifton & Orioles area we called the "West End". At that time, the 3 centres were able to fully function seperately offering a wide variety of programming. As the years went by, we began to lose kids to other progams offered outside our area and we could not build the same age group teams at all 3 centres and so we would "share" kids within the 3 areas. As volunteers/families began to drop from certain areas, we would then pick up those families at the other sites. When it became that just Clifton and Isaac had the remaing families/volunteers left the almalgimation idea came forth. It was studied and discussed IN DEPTH as to do so would dissolve the "Clifton Cougars" and "Isaac Brock Royals" names. It was obvious that to keep our centres open we would have to join. ORIOLES APPROACHED Isaac and Clifton in hopes of keeping their doors open as well. The work and hours it took to make it happen were astounding. The Valour Patriots were born from this hard work and is now used as a "staple" for all future centres that find themselves in the same boat. Our remaining memorabilia from Isaac,Clifton & Orioles was kept safely tucked away in respect to our parents and forfathers before us. To see DMSM using "old orioles letterhead" which by the way they have NO RIGHT TO CLAIM is very offensive and disrespectful to me as a resident. Valour letterhead was always available for their use. I truly am not sure how they got their hands on the latter apart from abusing their time at the Orioles site and rooting through our old memories! I guess it just shows how one spends their time as a VOLUNTEER versus a PAID EMPLOYEE....

Anonymous said...

The blog has a couple of inaccuracies that should be addressed.

1. "cash for amalgamation" - there wasn't any cash incentive to amalgamate

and

2. "money for renovations" - if Orioles had started a process sometime around
2002, they may have been the ones announcing a 2.26 million dollar expansion in
2009. The notion that Valour Community Centre got the money for renovations because of the
amalgamation is ludicrous!

Anonymous said...

Reading all these posts it would appear that there is a whole other side to this story. And not hearing any response from DMSMCA to any of this makes one wonder what they are affraid of....maybe the truth coming out? Let these responses be a warning to any group approached by DMSMCA to become partners with, that they are self serving and will only have their best interests in mind. I enjoyed reading about the political influences within and around this group. It's always nice when the little guy (VCC) can stand up for themselves and stare down the "Political Machine". I will, as a community resident (which I understand that DMSMCA wasn't even part of this area), continue to support the valiant efforts of those volunteers who tirelessly work to improve the community. Great job VCC!! DMSMCA I hope that you learned a lesson in all this. By putting your faith in what one post called a "bully" that makes that kind of money, is like jumping from a plane with no parachute. Wake up and take a hard look at what is going on in your group and look at why things transpired the way they did. Other groups are working extremely well with VCC, think about that!

mrchristian said...

Thanks for the comments.

Anon, about cash for amalgamations ... was that not part of the point behind the (post-PUFS) Manitoba-Winnipeg Recreation Infrastructure Program created in 2005 ?

It was additional infrastructure cash doled out with input from the GWGWCW or whatever it's called. It may not have been written into the guidelines but it was certainly seen as incentive for smaller clubs to amalgamate as they would then have a pot of money to draw on for new renovations ?

A number of groups got funded in 2006: Brock ($750k), Norberry/Glenlea ($1m) and Bronx/Kelvin ($4m).

Are you saying that having the centres amalgamated (or near amalgamation) had nothing to do with funding from that pot of money ?

Anonymous said...

The three centres amalgamated 4 years ago, it was probably in the works a year prior to that, the renos at the Isaac Brock site for a new gym go back 3-4 years prior to that. So if the people at Isaac Brock have a crystal ball then I guess you might have an argument. As well why would they good people at Clifton and Orioles agree to an amalgamation if only Isaac Brock was going to benefit? The fact remains that Orioles was in bad shape long before the amalgamation and is now the focus of the board to reguvanate it, but it doesn't happen over night. Yes there is money out there and yes you have to go after it, but it does take time to put plans into action. The Clifton site is also in need of some up grading and that will happen in time, but you don't hear the area residents crying about it. You seem to know a little bit about the way things work,but rather than approach someone and ask the right questions you chose to make an assumption and just like DMSMCA, put it out there and will probably get people in an up roar over it. Maybe there is a job opening with DMSMCA that you could fill, they seem to appreciate that way of thinking and acting. As far as not being able to contact anyone at VCC, try their web site, try the phone book, try something. Maybe suggest to them to hold a community meeting to answer questions and give information to the area residents. If you felt strongly enough about starting this post, then why not get in contact with them and follow up?

mrchristian said...

Hey, I'm just blogging about something that happened a block away from me and my thoughts on it. It wasn't meant to be a regional exposé and in no way inferred that I tired to contact VCC.

As for 'get a job with them, they would appreciate my way of thinking'. Nice. Makes the Valour sound like a warm, inviting place for me to go poke around at !

Anonymous said...

mrchristian,

About your comment on smaller clubs amalgamating for the incentive of drawing on pots of money for renovations.. When a community center such as VCC applies for funding, they are funded as one community center. Just because there are 3 buildings that make up one center, does not mean that VCC receives 3 times the amount of funds. For example, if they were granted say $20,000 for whatever reason, it is not $20,000 per site, it is $20,000 to service all 3 sites.
I too am involved in a community center myself, a rather small one compared to VCC, and yes, at first some of my board, myself included, believed that VCC received 3 times the amount other centers do, as they have 3 buildings, but we were wrong.

Anonymous said...

The approval of the gymnasium at Isaac Brock was through the Building Communities Initiative long before the PUFS report. Some other projects were completed before the report, Isaac Brock's was delayed by the report. I cannot speak to the dates of the Norberry/Glenlea nor to the Bronx/Kelvin initiatives.

Anonymous said...

Wow Mr. Christian, you sure have received quite a few posts regarding this article. It appears the majority are in favour of VCC. One might assume that they are from residents of the area that were in favour of the amalgamation and are volunteers of the community. Haven't really seen any comments against VCC. Haven't really seen any from a DMSM perspective either. Does this not give you the idea that you "bet on the wrong horse" in this battle ????

Anonymous said...

Valour is a great place. You have to realize that misinformation is what started this whole string of events with the DMSMCA group. You should also realize that if you are "just blogging" then you are opening the door for others to "just blog" as well. And you need to be prepared to hear their side as well, especially when it is something they are passionate about and want to protect. It would appear that some feathers are ruffled from your blog and whether or not that was your intent, what you take away from all this is up to you.

mrchristian said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
mrchristian said...

I think that the comments were interesting and rounded out the original post. That's why I allow public comments even from anons, to get feedback.

As to "betting on the wrong horse in this battle" I still refer to my original post as being that of someone who lives close to a community club concerned that a groups doing a lot of stuff out of that club is no longer doing it. I don't see that being an us and them proposition.

That is one of the big reasons why community club / student council etc. politics have never really interested me that much. Both sides can dig in with a 'you're on our side or you're against us' mentality. Which, for people without a personal interest or axe to grind for either side, just comes across as, well, petty - for both sides.

me said...

mrchristian,

I see your blog has resulted in having some rather passionate comments, some strongly passionate comments, and they seem to be in favor of Valour...

I realize your blog was just your thoughts, and I see that you have had to 'defend' your comments, but as you said you aren't really for or against either party. You have only really seen what ever it was that DMSMCA have done, for a small areaa, a postage stamp within the Valour catchment area. Have you actually checked out the bigger part of Valour's catchment?

Remember, I am a resident withing the Daniel MacIntyre catchment, but I have heard time and time again, at how hard the Valour Board has been working at trying to make the Orioles Site come alive again.

mrchristian said...

Thanks 'me'. Yes I'm absolutely taking a postage stamp area and giving my thoughts on it - I say that right off the top of my post.

My bugaboo with youth rec for 20 years, looong before I moved to the west end, is resources sitting idle. I don't care what facility it is or who runs it.

For a decade I lived in W.Broadway and saw the neighbourhood centre have its ups and downs (yes, I realize NCs and CCs are different animals). It was frustrating to watch 11 year olds break into cars in front of my place just a block down from a closed neighbourhood centre. At times, lots would go on at the centre but more to do with turf wars among adults and funding games with politicos than providing youth rec (and for the record I am talking back in the 90s).

When the city wanted to close Sherbrook Pool I spent a few years volunteering with a group that fundraised to pay for swim lessons and a club for area kids so that they could actually learn to swim, thus be able to make use the pool. Dealing with the city on an asset they would rather be closed was a frustrating experience.

Where I am now you hear and see kids out and about at all hours yet the school (with playing fields and gym) next to me is closed tight after 4 pm Mon-Fri and there's a possibility of less programming at the cc next to me ? That's annoying.

Even on the smallest scale, Jacob Penner Park has a paved basketball court ... but no hoops on the backboards, rendering it useless !! I shake my head but know (having worked on both sides) that by the time measly amount of funds would be allocated and the paperwork would wind it's way through the system any kids in the neighbourhood who might make use of it would long be adults.

THOSE are things that bug me about rec - community in-fighting, civic bureaucratic hoops or school board 'liability babble'. If people want to argue : our group is the side of good, they're the side of evil (and you're one of them !!)". Okay, whatever. It's still community groups puffing chests to me.

On a brighter note, mine isn't a bad news blog. It's certainly more positive than it is negative and if good things happen in my little postage stamp I will surely write about them !!

Christian

mrchristian said...

Thanks 'me'. Yes I'm absolutely taking a postage stamp area and giving my thoughts on it - I say that right off the top of my post.

My bugaboo with youth rec for 20 years, looong before I moved to the west end, is resources sitting idle. I don't care what facility it is or who runs it.

For a decade I lived in W.Broadway and saw the neighbourhood centre have its ups and downs (yes, I realize NCs and CCs are different animals). It was frustrating to watch 11 year olds break into cars in front of my place just a block down from a closed neighbourhood centre. At times, lots would go on at the centre but more to do with turf wars among adults and funding games with politicos than providing youth rec (and for the record I am talking back in the 90s).

When the city wanted to close Sherbrook Pool I spent a few years volunteering with a group that fundraised to pay for swim lessons and a club for area kids so that they could actually learn to swim, thus be able to make use the pool. Dealing with the city on an asset they would rather be closed was a frustrating experience.

...continued

mrchristian said...

...continued (2)

Where I am now you hear and see kids out at all hours yet the school (with playing fields and gym) next to me is closed tight after 4 pm Mon-Fri and there's a possibility of less programming at the cc next to me ? That's annoying.

Even on the smallest scale, Jacob Penner Park has a paved basketball court ... but no hoops on the backboards, rendering it useless !! I shake my head but know (having worked on both sides) that by the time measly amount of funds would be allocated and the paperwork would wind it's way through the system any kids in the neighbourhood who might make use of it would long be adults.

THOSE are things that bug me about rec - community in-fighting, civic bureaucratic hoops or school board 'liability babble'. If people want to argue : "our group is the side of good, there's is the side of evil (and you're one of them !!)". Okay, whatever. It's still community groups puffing chests to me.

On a brighter note, mine isn't a bad news blog. It's certainly more positive than it is negative and if good things happen in my little postage stamp I will surely write about them !!

Christian

mrchristian said...

Anon re: PUFS delay. That could be the case then. I was working with a group whose plans got gummed up for a couple of years waiting for PUFS and it's aftermath !

mrchristian said...

P.S. If there is any info about the Orioles site that you want to get out whether it be programming, meetings, calls for volunteers, let me know. I would be happy to blog about it and even drop them off in my neck of the woods - I'm south of Burnell and St. Matthews.

cassidy -at- mts.net

Anonymous said...

It is interesting to see how Valour is responding to this. Community members, along with the DMSMCA started asking questions about where the money for Orioles was going and VCC did not like this. If VCC has nothing to hide, they will open up their books and show the community where the money has been going. All Winnipegers should be concerned about how VCC is spending our tax dollars!

There is definitely, in my opinion, something fishy going on at VCC...they are using abusive and intimidation tactics with their board members and community who are asking questions.

Anonymous said...

I wondered how long it would take someone from DMSMCA to respond, and finally we hear from them. No doubt it wasn't from their leader, butrather one of the misinformed volunteers that work for them. I wouold love to haer what sort of intimidation tactics were used on board members and community members. I would assume that this is either one of two that were on the board of VCC and DMSMCA at the same time creating a conflict of interest that are either the writers of this last blog or it is someone that knows them. If you want to create conspiracy theories then you will have to take it right up to the top since community centres are overseen by the CITY of Winnipeg and have to have a chartered accountant prepare the statements. These accusations are exactly why DMSMCA is no longer welcome at the Orioles Site.It wasn't "Joe Community Member" asking questions at the AGM, it was members of the Bike Cage who have gotten into bed wit DMSMCA and people that sit on their board and do not reside in the VCC area and therefore really had no standing at the meeting other than to create panic.The whole plan was posted on the Bike Cage web site about rallying the troops and getting people elected so that they could run VCC(how did that work out for them?Right, it didn't).As soon it was made public that we new about the Bike Cage postings they mysteriously removed from the site.Too bad that by that time it was already saved to several computers and printed copies were made available. Oh and let's not forget the online petition, that was another feeble attempt at creating panic. Funny how some people felt so strongly that they signed it anonymous or just their first names. And then there was the political people that signed it, wow that is showing how deep the DMSMCA runs in the political world. You are right that all Winnipegers should be concerned, but not with VCC, but with the DMSMCA and their political partners trying to bully a volunteer board. There are lots of groups that VCC deals with every day and they all get along just fine,so you should ask yourself why did this happen with DMSMCA? I'm sure that their $60,000 a year leader would be able to make time to answer some questions since she is so good at communicating, oh wait you will probably have to wait and hear it through their chair of the board of directors since he seems to have to field her questions and emails. I can't wait to hear your response, I'm sure it will have to do with aliens running the VCC and they are after the gold buried deep beneath Orioles.

Dominique said...

Wow. I just stumbled upon this blog and low and behold this post caught me eye.

I was one of the "joe public" at the VCC AGM asking questions and told bold faced lies directly from the out going VCC board. During the AGM members of the Orioles community tried to put forward motions that were refused by the VCC board, a direct violation of the VCC Constitution not to mention that the AGM is suppose to be held in April not July. Just an indication of the lack of dedication and respect this volunteer board has towards its own community. If anyone in this situation has acted like a bully its most definitely the VCC Board. "Me" and "Anonymous" sound like those VCC bullies to me. Seeing as these fine folks are not willing to put their names to their claims, I don't see how an intelligent person could give any of their statements validity. I certainly can't and won't! I was there, I know the truth.

The VCC is not the savior of the Orioles CC as they would like to claim. They seem to have pocketed the cash that should have gone to OCC for maintenance and programing. From my calculations less than 10% of the allotted OCC funding that's suppose to go into the community centre actually made it there. The rest seems to have been siphoned off to the other two VCC centres. Orioles CC was left with no community programming and a severely neglected building.

Over and over again I hear the VCC board patting themselves on the back on how wonderful they are but when asked direct questions as to why they have irregular meetings, lack of communication with residents (Orioles specifically), conduct themselves in a framework of secrecy instead of transparency and not follow their own constitution we are given excuses of "we're a volunteer board" as if that somehow relieves them of responsibility and accountability.

As a resident in the Valour area, I'm holding you (VCC) accountable. I will continue to ask questions and I will continue to demand that Orioles CC be treated fairly and that the Orioles community members not be shut out from our own community centre. The VCC is not a private country club and you don't get to decide who can and can't have access.

Anonymous said...

Well Dom, what questions did you ask at the meeting? I was also there and I know that there were people in attendance that did not have voting rights as were indicated by the sticker residents who were able to vote wore and they were the ones asking questions. The purpose of the AGM was to elect a new board (how many positions did you run for?),and not as an open forum for uneducated people to stand on their soap boxes because they would rather do that then actually get involved and make a difference.
As for the doors at the Orioles Site being locked, well you can thank Kemlin,(I'm sure you know who that is) for that as she didn't want people coming in while her and her staff were there since they were women and it isn't a nice area. She would actually demand anyone coming in to produce a current criminal record check before allowing them in. I think you should get both sides before you start shooting your mouth off. It's ignorant, closed minded people such as yourself that can't see past their own little agendas. Get involved, there are vacant positions on the board or would that be asking too much from you? You seem to have some insight as to where the money is going, Hmmmmm, i think I smell a political rat here. Why not phone the VCC manager and ask what programming is happening at the Orioles Site? Now just because the programming there isn't something that interests you doesn't mean that there is no programming going on.
As for the building being run down, why don't you right a nice fat check and pay for the renos? That building was run down prior to the amalgamation, and was barely surviving, except for three board members that refused to give up(where were you during all of this?). All the renos at the Isaac Brock Site were in place years before the amalgamation. I suppose they could have made the Orioles Site the home for the football team,except there is no field there (or is that the fault of the VCC Board as well?).
Back to the AGM for a moment. If in fact you were there, the were also members from the City there as well. If you felt that there was a "direct violation of the Constitution" then that would have been a great time to call them out on it and demand that the City take action. Obviously the City is aware of how it all went down that night and they were o.k. with it. But I supposwe you are also one of those anti-government types that feel that everyone is watching them (too bad X-Files is not on anymore, you could probably write a script for them).
Again my advice "get involved and see first hand how things work before wasting peoples time with your absolute nonsense!" Good luck with that, I personally don't think you will, because it's easier to sit back and criticize than actually do anything about it.
~Glen

Dominique said...

G, you don't know the first thing about me and all your conspiracy ramblings are just a projection of your own paranoia.

I was at the AGM, I have voting rights and I asked questions. I am an active volunteer in my community and if I thought I could have been voted into the VCC country club I would have ran for a seat.

Almost two months ago I ask the current VCC president for an outline of the community programming that they will be offering at Orioles. Four phone calls later I still don't have anything indicating that there will be any programing offered, just a lot of excuses and lies.

So keep on spreading your hate, vile and paranoid theories, the truth will come out no matter how hard you try to cover it up.

anne said...

Mrchristian, very interesting blog, you have here.

For those of you supporting VCC, thank you.

Dominique, you say about 2 months ago you contacted the VCC president for info?

I can honestly say for sure, that you have most definitely NOT contacted the president of VCC for an outline of the programs we are offering at the VCC - Orioles Site, as if you had actually contacted the president of VCC for this information, it would have been given to you. In fact, if you would like to call VCC and leave your number, or email address, i would gladly make sure you have a list of programs being offered there.

Anne -- VCC PRESIDENT :)

Anonymous said...

Well D, I have seen the proof regarding the DMSMCA group and I can tell you that the only conspiracy theories are in your head.
You say you contacted the VCC president, what about the club manager? You didn't say to whom you made 4 phone calls, I happen to have made a few today myself.
There are lots of groups working quite harmoniously with the VCC, people that don't mind paying their rent, and suppling the necessary information that is legally required by the city for a group to occupy space in a community centre. I'm guessing that you are involved with either the DMSMCA group or the Bike Cage and if I'm correct, then I do know something about you. Saying that if you thought you would get voted in you would have run is just a bunch of B.S.! If you don't buy a lottery ticket it guarentees you won't win, but if you at least buy one you then have a chance, so you should have run for a position and if you didn't get in then you would have some ground to stand on. But playing the "if I thought" card doesn't wash.
As far as spreading hate vile paranoid theories, well you don't have a clue who I am and now you are being judgemental as well so take a big bite of hypocratic pie and try not to choke on your own words.
Prove me wrong and get involved,show me that I don't know what I'm talking about.I hope to see you at the next meeting and being announced as the new whatever in charge of whatever.
~G

Dominique said...

Ann, you need to speak to Marlene over at the GCWCC and then tell me again that I didn't ask for that information.

For the record, I don't have any volunteer ties to DMSMCA or the Bike Cage. I'm a community member who is fed up with the high handed tactics of the VCC. I've seen enough, heard enough and experienced enough to know the VCC doesn't give a rats behind about the Orioles community or its members.

That's going to change.

anne said...

Dominique, you may have talked to Marlene from gcwcc, but you did not talk to me, as you claimed in an earlier post. Like I said, i first learned this upon reading this blog. Call VCC and leave a number or your email, and you will get the info.

As for your comment we don't care about the VCC oriole site, not true. I grew up in the Orioles Catchment area when I was a kid, and yes it was a great place to hang out. VCC has board members who also grew up in area, and know how things used to be.

Before you point fingers about where money is going, perhaps you should ask the former president of Orioles, the one who allowed it to go into such disrepair, the one who was at the time, in charge of the funding for that particular site -- before she decided to join the amalgamation. And let me tell you, she dragged her feet until the last possible moment, and then all of a sudden was on board with going ahead. The rest of us at Valour would like to know that as well. To allow a community center to become that run down, and so badly in the red financially, is something we have questioned over and over. No, we didn't get answers either. The only thing we understood about that situation, was that there were only 3 volunteers trying to keep it open, but were failing. Again, ask the former president what happened.
I have a few questions for you Dominique- when orioles was going under, before the amalgamation, where were you? Did you offer to join the board then to help keep it open? When there was a public meeting held, to voice your opinion on the amalgamation, where were you, did you speak then? When Valour had its first agm, where were you? Did you attend, did you run for a position, no. How about the year after that, or event the one after that. Even this year, you could have run for a position, even nominated yourself - nothing wrong with that, it shows interest in a position. But you did not.

As for the funding part with the Isaac Site. That was something in the works 4 years prior to the amalgamation itself. Yes Dominique, major projects take that long to get funded.

Since the amalgamation, we have applied for funding to help with the Orioles Site, it took time for funding to come through for the outside, and yet even though we have a better looking playground area, there are still things that need attention. Like where the community gardens are. Again, funding is being applied for, but does not mean we will automatically get it, and if we do, it usually is not enough, as the funding has to be split between the other community centres in the city. Even with the funding we have for the interior, it is not enough to do a complete makeover.

These kinds of things take time, and people such as yourself, VCC, and area residents, need to have patience. There is a light at the end of the tunnel for the VCC Orioles Site.

mrchristian said...

What would 1952 Miss Orioles Community Club think, indeed. I gathered that there was some personal animosity involved but this was quite a lesson.

I guess on a 'sort of' bright note, whatever the poisonous relationship that existed between VCC and DMSCA is now over.

If there really ARE folks on the VCC side and Orioles area residents that are willing to move on, perhaps something good can happen: i.e. lots of non DMSCA community programming at the centre with lots of community voluntters to come help out with it.

I really hope both sides do not dig in and, like sad old war vets, relive this battle for years and years to come.

Dominique said...

mrchristian, I couldn't agree with you more!

this single spark said...

Just to clrify... I would like VCC to contact the gardeners (rather than the other way around, which will be happening) for two reasons.

1. DMSMCA has contacted the gardeners to let them know that they relocated and to invite them to the transition meeting. I would like to hear from VCC. I would like this, but don't expect it as it would mean VCC and DMSMCA were able to put differences aside and work together for the community, which doesn't seem possible at the moment.

2. I would like VCC to contact us BECAUSE it would mean that the two groups were able to look past their differences. Which would mean that the garden had a hope of continuing.

anne said...

Hi ,"this single spark",

If you would like, you can contact VCC and ask to have a message passed on to me, so we can discuss this further, or send an email to ararama@mts.net.

Anne

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the great blog, Dumplings. Sad for the West End to see so many spiteful and petty comments! How can the community grow up when its members won't?

Anonymous said...

Once Again the Neighbourhoods Alive Agencies are trying to bully an entire community. Hard to believe that the Province gives them almost 1/2 Million per year to destroy communities. But, as the NA web site says, this is Economic Development, or what they hope will pass for it. These paid agents of the Provincial Governments need to get real jobs. I am tired of supporting all their projects through my tax dollars.

Anonymous said...

I live in West Broadway and the West Broadway Development Corporation (a Neighbourhoods Alive Agency, like DMSMCA)uses the same bullying tactics. I hope that when the government changes they stop funding horrible Agencies. They are bad for communities.

Anonymous said...

I live in West Broadway where for the last 13 years the community has been dominated by this NDP Poverty Industry Branch Plant West Broadway Development Corporation. They don't help the poor, they help themselves, they are bullies with a sense of entitlement to tell us how to plan our communities and spend public funds. I hope that when the government changes that they are forced to get real jobs.